Is there a god for us, or is it us who made god?

[LippoW]

Hey,

Serious debate about existence of god, where us who have no evidence debate against those who have.

So, is there or isn't there.

Please leave us arguments on which we can argue with.

For the sake of the argument I say there is no god. Lets start there and see who disagrees!?

[ShiningForce]

You cannot prove something like god doesn't exist. You can have extremely reasonable doubt, but you can't prove he doesn't exist absolutely.

[teflon]

You can't prove anything doesn't exist.
But in the absence of any single piece of evidence to suggest something exists, it's irrational to claim it does.
There are two kinds of people (actually there are thousands but just for the sake of argument lets stick to two), people who believe something simply because they are told it is true, and people who do not.
Most children will believe anything they are told, it's a survival mechanism hard-coded into our DNA, children need to be able to learn how to get food and go poop and communicate, quickly. I suppose some adults just never grow out of that state of intellectual credulity.
It's sad, but as several studies seem to tentatively suggest, stupid people are happier people. Ignorance really is bliss... and Hell is other people.

[meow]

omg weve just had this very same debate already lol, it keeps kicking around this forum like an old penny lol.

there is one and only one 'fact' as such and that is we are here, wich is quite spectaular.

aside from the fact thatmost religions have stuff in texts wich is obviously provable to be ridiculous,
beleif in god is a belief and as such theres no facts involved.

science may have given us an alternative to the way in wich humans were formed to that of the bible ie genesis, and the age of the earth, but the creation of matter also disagrees with the laws of thermodynamics wich are so far unable to be proved wrong ohterwise.

but science cant nor probably ever will, be able to tell us <why> the laws of nature are such that evolution is not only possible but almost inevitable given the right planetary conditions.

neither science or religious people can actualy tell you what to beleive in spiritualy, its up to you.

chances are if you wernt brought up to beleive in god you probably never will, and even if you were, in this part of the world youl probably stop beleiving, if you wertnt then wich god do you chose ? you may of course have an epiphany.

as far as I see it we virtually have free will and the ability to choose our lives, but not forgetting our lives are mostly affected by other people, if there is a god it is obvious he has little influence compared to the influence of those other people, and of the inevitable forces of nature.

sceince cant prove or disprove god, science has answers for most other things,
but religious people have answers for what science cant prove, but these arnt proof they are just <an> answer.

[Ashante]

By God are we talking about a monotheistic religious God? Or the possible prescence of some being we are unable to define? I'm taking it to mean we're talking about the God of Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

Originally Posted by meow

aside from the fact thatmost religions have stuff in texts wich is obviously provable to be ridiculous, beleif in god is a belief and as such theres no facts involved.

And what exactly do you think that a belief is? It is a statement about how we think the world works. Your beliefs define your vision of the world, they dictate your behaviour, they determine your emotional responses to other human beings. Beliefs are actions in potentia.

"Believing a given proposition is a matter of believing that it faithfully represents some state of the world, and this fact yields some immediate insights into the standards by which our beliefs should function. In particular, it reveals why we cannot help but value evidence and demand that propositions about the world logically cohere. These constraints apply equally to matters of religion. "Freedom of belief" (in anything but the legal sense) is a myth."

Originally Posted by meow

science may have given us an alternative to the way in wich humans were formed to that of the bible ie genesis, and the age of the earth, but the creation of matter also disagrees with the laws of thermodynamics wich are so far unable to be proved wrong ohterwise.

but science cant nor probably ever will, be able to tell us <why> the laws of nature are such that evolution is not only possible but almost inevitable given the right planetary conditions.

It is not the purpose of science to explain. Science makes models, it describes. Science tells us HOW, not WHY.

Originally Posted by meow

sceince cant prove or disprove god, science has answers for most other things, but religious people have answers for what science cant prove, but these arnt proof they are just <an> answer.

I could give you answers for something science can't prove as well, chances are they'd also be wrong, so what makes religious answers so right for some people?
I think it's just the human thirst for knowledge, that some people are too impatient and need answers for everything, so they take those answers rather than face the unknown.

My point is, don't you see the problem with believing something just because you want to?

[meow]

I was pointing out that beleif is only necessary when there is insuficient facts for actual proof.
if you have sufficient facts or proof then its no longer a beleif.

unless you consider beleif to encompass everything even the plain undeniable obvious ?

im not sure what the point of your post is if your agreeing or disagreeing or with what exactly.

science does give us explainations of why some things happen, like why water flows down hill for example. some models are considered to clearly represent the true nature of things, others are questionable as to how they reflect the true nature, even though they fit the data wel enough to be used.

but again I never said it is the role of science to explain why, merly that it probably never will, so i dont know if your agreeing or disagreeing.

I never said anything about how right any answer is for anybody, merly that religious people are good at coming up with answers to awkward questions.

well the alternative is to not beleive in anything (wich is some sort of belief in itself anyway) or beleive in something that you dont want to, i realy dont see your point ?

I dont think of freedom of beleif as a myth, exept for the closed minded.

you seem to be making the mistake of thinking that im pro religion maybe ?

[Tagred]

A deity is a man made construct, and so are all the scirptures. As knowledge increases the need for a supernatural explanation goes away. Goddidit is becomming less and less viable to the point of ridicule.

Unfortunately there seems to be a resurgence in superstition hopefully one day we will have an education system that teaches critical thinking.

Before people start saying that science is a belief, it is not; it is a method.

[Mars]

I'm not going to indulge this topic anymore than what I'm about to say,
there isn't a lot in the universe that is greater than the sum of it's parts,
one of these things is the human brain, being a mere collection of cells and neurology,
however it is the powerhouse of a living human consciousness,

Apply the same thought to the size of the universe, vast swathes of energy and radiation,
undiscovered and undetectable elements, solar systems, galaxies in endlessly complex formations etc,
If a human consiousness can fit into a brain, and what we have achieved so far is the result
of our existence on the confines of earth, then imagine us as being mere plankton
compared to an energy/consciousness bourne of infinate space, a vast matrix of living energy
that permeates every single molecule, free from physical limitation,
with the ability to alter it's surroundings to any degree, from the birth of the smallest amoeba,
to the destruction of an entire galaxy.

[Tagred]

Yeah, it's a wonder alright, thats what scientists try to find out, how it works, and whats gonna happen.

You're touching on a sort of Gaia theory there. Probably the best person to ever explain his views and wonder of the universe in a wonderous yet scientific way was the late great Carl Sagan

[LippoW]

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YouTube - Ali G - Religion and Rapping
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