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I started watching some of this last night on Channel 4, they have a week or so of programmes talking about gun and knife crime in the UK.
To be honest with you i found the dispatches programme hard to watch because I couldn't understand a lot of what the narrator was saying, but I really enjoyed "kids, knives and broken lives". They interviewed a load of kids from street gangs to get their points of view on the whole situation.
The kids they spoke to actually seem more intelligent than I originally gave them credit for, especially the kid who said that the government cant tackle the problem of knife crime by restricting them from getting weapons, they have to make them think they don't NEED the knife, and that's the only way to stop it.
One thing that did make me laugh though was that when they were interviewing the lad at the bus stop in london, whos talking about how unsafe the area is and how strangers coming into the area are at risk of being stabbed - and theres a building site across the road with a huge banner - "ANOTHER GREAT PLACE TO LIVE"
Anyway, what do you think of gun / knife crime in the UK? Do you feel personally at risk? Do you think it's been blown out of proportion? What is the solution? Do you blame the parents? The kids? Rap music and GTA?
I feel safe where I live, but you can tell it's getting worse.
I blame the parents, they all seem to be single mothers who look like hobbits. Father is not there and if he is he isn't a positive male role model, so he gets replaced by 50 cent and similiar, instead of Superman or someone good like that.
Peer pressure at school, because everyone else is a scally, NED to you ashy, chav to everyone not from manchester but not scotland either, and no dad to say "get the fuck out of that stupid tracksuit you gimp or I'll beat the crap out of you", mum doesn't care because she wears one too. Police restrained by paperwork and 'human rights' so they can't line them up and crack them over their skulls with their telescopic batons.
Blacks from london spreading their silly culture north.
And thanks to Hitler 'teaching us a lesson' we won't have a dictator who will have the balls to get the army to round them up in concentration camps.
In short you are fucked if you live in one of those areas.
It has got worse over the years but compared to the rest if Europe its still very low.
It does need to be tackled obviously and its only some areas that are effected by it, luckily living in Wales we dont seem to have the same issues as England has, people are a lot happier here also it might have something to do there is not as many immigrants here, there are rough areas but the kids around those areas only tend to steal cars and rob, they dont carry any weapons cause like that young guy said in the doc, they dont feel as if they need to carry weapons to defend them selfs.
I live (or rather, grew up) next to one of the areas that was on the programme. Easterhouse, where the little kid said "gettin stabbed disnae hurt", lol. Still go back there every week to buy weed, and it's just a state. They're knocking down all the old tenament flats in order to put up new semi-detached brick houses, trying to build a "new easterhouse" by splitting it up into communities like Lochend and Provanhall and taking away the old Easterhouse bad name.
But it just gives the gangs of the areas more definition, if you're in the wrong area you'll get jumped. We were about 16 and going round the corner to someones grans house and guys started chasing us. We ran into a takeout shop, and they wouldn't let us stay there, chucked us out, because they said basically that the shop windows would get smashed if we stayed in the shop.
I've seen such random things used as weapons, like guys chasing other guys, then stopping at the Ice-cream van, buy two cans of irn-bru, shake them up like hell, and chuck them at the guy he was chasing, MAN that looked sore! And incidentally, the ice cream vans are around all night selling drugs.
Pretty much everyone walks about in brightly coloured tracksuits with plastic morrissons bags full of booze and multipacks of crisps, theres litter absolutely everywhere, they really should just have burnt it all down.
But no... the government built them brand new primary and high schools, and even called them Community Schools so the kids don't have to wear a uniform, as an incentive to go. Built community colleges and football pitches and parks. It's all been done pretty recently, so hard to tell if it's going to have any effect. And all the new houses are council houses, free for all the unemployed masses to move into. Lucky them!
Grael, I'm not really sure it's to do with immigrants, we've only recently had a surge of polish people in Scotland, but the majority of neds / chavs around here are white and Scottish. But I haven't really lived in an area with a lot of foreign people so can't really evaluate it properly.
I think I blame the parents, it's easy to say when it's other peoples' kids running amok, and I'd like to think I'd be more sensible / strict / caring than to let my kids turn out like that, but it's a pretty sweeping statement. Every kid makes mistakes and can get in with the wrong crowd, problem is once they've realised their mistake and tried to get out of it they've already caused themself a whole world of problems.
There are some Poles just now where I live, to pick raspberries and strawberries for the summer, and we spoke to some of them in the pub who were nice and invited them back to mine for a smoke, even a couple of the blokes.
On the way out of town, some neds shouted stuff at them with their clothes and haircuts and tans, and I grabbed the biggest Pole (huge skinhead) and told him to ignore them. But he wouldn't and punched one of the neds in the face a couple of times, but ned#2 basically caved his skull in with a full beer can. One ned girl came over to me and all the Polish girls and said she was going to tell the police I had raped her because I was with those foreign pricks.
I think my adrenaline-fuelled retort was "you wish", and I got the rest of them out of there.
So my experience of racial violence that evening where both sides were at fault left me feeling ashamed of the Scottish peasantry, and sad for those Polish guys just trying to have a good time, even if they should have just left it- "This is Scotland, we'll just set aboot ya" quote from that douchebag that kicked a flaming arab at Glasgow Airport.
I live in a small Yorkshire village where recently a Polish shop was ram raided for displaying a sign that said Polish only, which I am told is against the law to display such signs, they where ram raided by a pair of druggies. I certainly don't agree with the shop sign but there are much better ways to sort out differences with out resorting to violence.
As for the kids with knives. I too think the parents are to blame. If one of my kids stabbed some one I would see it as a failing in my parenting. I also blame the lack of good old fashioned family values. If parenting was meant to be a one man operation then we wouldn't need two to conceive. I'm in now way saying all single parents are going to bring up kids that will stab someone, what I am saying is look around at the single parents you know, the good ones will have other support systems in place, whether it be other family members, friends or some organisation. I'm also not having a go at guy couples that choose to have children because they are not single parents. Parenting is hard. I don't know how single parents do it.
The 'latch key kid generation' doesn't help either. Most parents have no option but to go out and work when their kids are at home, leaving them at home to do what they want. So I guess the government would be to blame there. We have teenagers that have no where to go, nothing to do! Then when the odd community want to do something for them its usually objected to and stopped. We should have had a youth centre created near us, one where kids could get help for lots of problems and some where for them to hang out. But no! it got stopped by residence that where afraid. Its a catch 22 that needs sorting.
I think radical action is needed. I think it was Brooke Kinsella, who recently said that she thought national service could be one answer, maybe that would. I also think that we should put curfews on kids. Maybe say for example, kids 16 and under to be indoors by 9pm. Younger kids an earlier time. I would like to say that if they are indoors their parents will know where they are and what they are doing, but thats not always the case. I think it would be a good start. It would mean we would (should) see more police on the streets, and if children are found they are taken back to the care of their parents, or suitable alternative.
Looking into the needs of parents that are working needs looking into too. Its easy for me to say what I have as until this last year I have been lucky enough to stay at home with my kids. Because of the credit crunch more parents are forced back to work when they would rather be at home looking after the kids. Finding a job that fits round them is almost impossible if you don't want to spend most of your wage on childcare. What do we do with our teenage children? Are they old enough to look after themselves for a few hours? I couldn't image mine been too please if I got them a child minder. Again another catch 22.
Its not just the knife culture. Recently the village I live in has had problems with kids in gangs hanging round bus shelters, street corners, alleyways drinking alcohol. One of the children picked up by the police was only ten years old. When taken back to her parents she told the police it wasn't her problem!
I wouldn't say I feel personally at risk from been stabbed. I don't think its been blow out of proportion but what I think needs to be remembered is that the media is much bigger than it was 20 or even 10 years ago, it has helped to bring this problem to light.
Last edited by draganess; 03-07-2008 at 09:37..
Reason: lol spelling
I live in a small Yorkshire village where recently a Polish shop was ram raided for displaying a sign that said Polish only, which I am told is against the law to display such signs, they where ram raided by a pair of druggies. I certainly don't agree with the shop sign but there are much better ways to sort out differences with out resorting to violence.
But doesn't the business owner have a right to choose one's customers?
Yes, the sign is somewhat racist, but then again it's the business owner who's using one's freedom to choose one's customers, the way one does it is a bit daft though. One could do it more polite way like multiplying the prices by 100 and giving Polish 99% discount.
In a way this 'racism' happens everywhere where you have luxury items or services, the prices keep homeless customers out, right?
But doesn't the business owner have a right to choose one's customers?
And if a British person displayed a sign saying "British Passport Holders Only" then the cries of racism would be heard all the way to Poland and back. You can't win tbh.
Great post Drag
Years ago the ex was stabbed waiting for a mate outside a pub in Burnley one night. He belonged to a gang called ChippyRA or something along those lines (really stupid name lol) and carrying weapons around was one of those things for them. Anyhow he was stabbed and I remember him telling me he didn't feel anything until he felt wet and warm. The guy had brushed up against him and stuck a knife right thru his front, just below his ribs, and out the back. His brother, not long after, was beaten to an inch of his life with a baseball bat by a rival gang. They used to carry around those knuckle duster things with knives stuck in the bottom of them, and flick knives. I remember seeing one of the baseball bats they had with nails in the end of it, and the ex use to keep a ghurka knife under his front seat in the car, once chased 2 lads with it for looking at my boobs
My step dad went out for a drink with my mum and was slashed from ear to ear for no reason he could think of, other than he was rolling home steaming with my mum. He had 50+ stitches in his face, and because of the trauma they went thru they split up.
Back then knives where just as prevalent as they are now, it's only that the media is more powerful and in your face than it was then. Reports make outlandish claims of knife attacks up something like 75%, when really its more like treatments for knife wounds is up by that much, doesn't necessarily mean that more people are being stabbed.
If kids nowadays felt safer on the streets, then they would have no need to carry knives, but it is going to take a long long time before the mindset that knives protect them will be changed.
Hope that makes sense
And if a British person displayed a sign saying "British Passport Holders Only" then the cries of racism would be heard all the way to Poland and back. You can't win tbh.
Well, my point was being that you can do things racist and 'racist' way.
I'm sure there's a lot of racism against poor people, you just call it business.
Send em to boot camp, national service, there they can practice shooting various small animals with their weapons, it should get it out of there system.
Mostly blame the parents, but the way things have gone too PC over the past 20yrs hey it's our fault for human rights. Perhaps its the lawyers fault at source....?
While reading the replies I was surprised to begin recalling incident after incident,of violence I've seen or my family have experienced. I was more surprised when I realised I hadn't even thought about them before now, even with all the tv shows and writing in this thread. Those sorts of incidents should stick out in our lives as something quite shocking, but I guess the truth is that it's become so commonplace.
My brother has been stabbed twice, he's had his arm in a cast for 5 months now and may need surgery (the bone hasn't set properly), because he punched a drunk guy who attacked him in town.
When he was staying at his girlfriends house in Govan two drunk guys buzzed the door and tried to get into the flat, and when they opened the door to see who it was, they pushed themselves into the flat. My brother and his friend who was also there wrestled them out again, and had to barricade the door, his girlfriend called the police but they took ages to come. In the meantime the guys outside got big heavy plant pots from some garden and chucked them through one of the bedroom windows.
Needless to say they moved out of that flat pretty sharp
My dad was walking home from the pub one night and walked into the middle of two local gangs fighting, he got seriously injured, still remember being about 10-11 and seeing my dad in a pool of blood at the bottom of the stairs, and the ambulance coming and my mum hysterical.
I could go on... but you get the point. I think kids growing up now see violence as a part of life, they see fighting and bullying in schools, maybe parents or siblings fighting at home, parents letting their 7 year olds play GTA and watch violent rated movies (and then have the audacity to blame tv / games / music for the problem). I'm not saying we need to live in a censored society with fake happy everywhere , we just need to be more aware of the environment we're introducing to our kids at a young age when they can't distinguish between fantasy and reality and have no idea about the consequences of the crimes they could commit.
But doesn't the business owner have a right to choose one's customers?
Yes, the sign is somewhat racist, but then again it's the business owner who's using one's freedom to choose one's customers, the way one does it is a bit daft though. One could do it more polite way like multiplying the prices by 100 and giving Polish 99% discount.
In a way this 'racism' happens everywhere where you have luxury items or services, the prices keep homeless customers out, right?
Wonder what would be said if say Asda for instance had a sign outside saying no Polish/Pakistani/Chinese/Romanians/Indians/Americans/French Only English. .I bet that would promote a different response!
i) Revoke parent rights of young children (12 or younger) and ship the little sprogs off to foster parents/homes to be brought up properly if the parents prove to be incapable of raising the children. Furthermore, deny that parent any more child benefits of any kind. Forced sterilisation would be too much.
ii) Ship off teenage fuckwits to military schools. For them it may be too late, but maybe the shock of being pushed around by someone bigger than them will make them know their place. At the very least they won't be around my streets.
I think the softly softly approach has failed miserably. Playing diplomat with kids who have nothing to lose and nothing of value in their lives isn't going to work.
'Disarming Britain' is going to be as successful as the wars on terrorism and drugs. As ever, if someone wants something they'll get it. Similarly all the appalling limits on social freedoms that the Government have put into place won't help anyone, just hinder the people who have the right to do what they want.
Changes to society cannot be imposed, they have to be made BY society. The law that says you shouldn't kill each other is entirely irrelevant as a deterrent, because 99.99% of people know not to kill one another (the law is just a handy way of dealing with that very small percentage who do end up killing). Concordantly, the people who want to carry knives will carry knives, law or no law.
I think all of the above solutions wich try and deal with the problem once its already hapened are totaly inadequate, and potentialy make the problem worse, the only way is to ensure that parents who are expecting a child must undergo training to ensure theyir children are bought up properly.
if they cant demosnstrate they are capable they shouldnt be alowed to have more, as for those children they have already wel i dont thing institutions are a good idea, maybe they should get help but not in the form of money.
ofc these ideas are prbably too drastic to ever see the light of day.
as for the people that are already a problem i dont know if theres a solution, maybe its too late, its a shame if theyr life is effectivly over though.
Disarming Britain
And incidentally, the ice cream vans are around all night selling drugs.
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