Racism

[teflon]

I know I will have to be careful here because I just got a warning from Det about this very same subject, which I fully accept and this is in no way a dig at him.

It's an interesting topic nonetheless and I would like to see some viewpoints from you fine folks. Shall we assume that the term 'racism' includes insulting or abusive language or violence directed at people who because they are in some way different from the 'racist'. I'm going to ignore the violence side of things because that is cut and dried (black and white), it's obviously completely unacceptable.

What I'm interested in is the insulting/abusive language side of things. Is a statement racist because of the intent, or because of how it was taken? Where does pointing out differences between peoples become insulting? Is there such a thing as positive racism? Are some races actually better or worse at certain tasks or abilities?

Let's take a moment to look at some of the more common 'derogatory' terms. Once again I hope I don't cause any offence here, I merely look to promote debate.
The most famous/infamous 'racist' word is probably the N word when applied to black folks. For the sake of argument, let's call it Nigger. Etymologycially speaking (the evolution of language), the N word has a loooong history. It is believed to have arisen from ancient Africans as a geographical distinction. Meaning 'person from the wide river', presumably the River Niger, at this stage it's not exactly what we consider racist. But somehow in times of slavery the word became a derogatory term which white North Americans would use to berate the poor old slaves. Thus black people began to feel offended by it, who wouldn't?

Thankfully black people in the West now have equal rights and have reclaimed the word, but only for themselves... fine.

The other infamous one, in Britain at least is Paki. This is just a shortened version of Pakistani, in the same way that Scot is short for Scottish, but it was the way the word was used which eventually made it hurtful. Especially when it was applied to Indians and Bangladeshis ignorantly. Innocent people describing a visit to the 'Paki shop' became tarnished with racism by skinhead groups going around kicking in 'fucking Pakis'... fine.

Far Eastern people have an in-between skin colour neither brown nor white, and got branded 'yellow'. Surely not a problem, but then came Vietnam and Chinese communism which made them disliked and yellow was often suffixed with fuckers or similar. So again they took offence, who wouldn't? You may also have noticed their eyes also have different shapes to ours, pretty obvious really and who knows which shape is best? Theirs are probably better on a sunny day and ours better on a damp foggy day. Who cares? They do... we're not allowed to mention it now.... fine.

Black guys are really fast at running, but not very good at swimming. Asians seem to have a natural advantage at abstract mathematics but are short and hairless. White people got organised hundreds of years before the others but are now becoming big and fat.

Where is your personal line drawn? I think it should be fine to say all those words (minus the fucking etc) and point out all those differences, we are all different and we should celebrate that rather than shove it under the carpet and pretend everyone is the same in case someone feels bad. Call me any 'racist' term you like, as long as it's not said with venom or hatred I really wouldn't think any less of you.

Please be sensible as this topic has the potential to go down in flames, use some philosophy, you have it there inside your brainbox, you might as well.

Tef the Cracker Jock Round-Eyed Fucker.

[Mars]

for a start the word 'racism' is not viable, at least until we discover another humanoid
race to discriminate against, we are all the same race, Homo Sapiens, therefore
racism is invalid.

[teflon]

Good.

[Detomah]

Originally Posted by teflon

I know I will have to be careful here because I just got a warning from Det about this very same subject, which I fully accept and this is in no way a dig at him.

That wasn't a warning, warnings from me come in direct contact via PM or infraction type form, I was just trying to make sure you continue to stay on the right side of the often fine line you ride with the language you use, in otherwords, even I don't know the context you mean with your writing sometimes, hence why your post was deleted then reinstated slightly edited...

Regarding the actual subject of racism, unfortunately my personal view of it is something I am going to have to abstain from airing, as I am going to have to monitor this particular thread and feel I would not be able to professionally do so unless I do refrain from joining in the discussion.

Suffice to say, my only airable opinion of racism, is that no form of racism is knowing accepted on Total Format and that we do look at reports and complaints of racism from a personal level balanced view point and not just from a professional to the letter of the TF law type view point and we also try to look at the individual context intended and not just from a dictionary meaning of words used.

As has already been stated, please be sensible while discussing this subject.

[Tagred]

I think the definition of racism is dependant on the ruling classes, e.g., majority or parliament or monarchy etc.

By definition a black person cannot be racist against a white person in the UK because the ruling people are mostly white so on and so forth.

However, that line is slightly blurred now as with the new laws that came in. It is moving from that definition to one where if you feel insulted then it is either a hate crime or racist etc. It seems everyone has the right not to be offended, but it has also diminished the right to offend and in some circumstances the right to free speach

[Allanon]

Firstly, anyone treating someone badly purely because of their race is below contempt. People should not be treated based on the stereotype of their 'race', as with practically all stereotypes it is not accurate. I could not care what race religion, sex etc people are, as long as you have a good character and treat people with respect, you're fine by me.

However, aspects of the anti-rascism campaign are equally abhorrent. It seems some people would rather we strip away anything that is unique about us and all become the average Joe Bloggs. It's also made people really conscious around each other which furthers the divide. Always best when you can share jokes about it and poke fun at the stereotypes. Some people are too sensitive about it and perpetuate the issue that offends them by making a big deal of it.

Differences should be celebrated. 'Finding beauty in the Dissonance' and all that.

[Tagred]

Totally agree with you Allanon. The real problem is finding the balance, unfortunately it is impossible to please all people all the time so we probably hear more about the extremes which causes knee jerk reactionary legislation and so on. But you arre absoutely right in my opinion.

[emma roids]

if theres gonna be a law against `racism` then it should work both ways, but we only usually hear of white on black racism but i bet theres plenty of black on white.

like if someone gets attacked in the street and just happens to be a black person then theres shouts of `racist attack` yet when a white person gets attacked its just part of the norm.

[Puratech]

A very interesting topic as far as im concerned. I definitely dont consider myself racist, i think everyone should be treated the same regardless of race. That said the whole idea now of racism in itself is so absurd that racist humour is infact very funny.

You only have to look at uber popular TV shows like Scrubs, where they stereotype Turk with all the black humour, basketball, black jokes, ghetto talk, handshakes. Or House where Dr House makes frequent "racist" comments at his black staff member Foreman, including stopping him from using a whiteboard with the comment "Theres a reason its called a white board" and using random ghetto references about the hood, the streets, popping caps and expecting him to know about all things criminal. So were in this weird situation where, racism is massively looked down upon. However its okay to mock racist stereotypes, perhaps because it undermines them?

The main reason racism is funny to a lot of us, is that so many people, lets call them jobsworths as theyre in the same category go around screaming in shock at anything racist, when most of us dont have any racial hatred. Most of us will mock our black friends just the same as we'll mock our fat friends.

Racist humour is strange too though, sometimes the joke is in taking the stereotype too far, or just being as offensive as possible. My "non cracker" friends find amusement in this kinda thing too. Take your black friend to the bar and say "A pint for me and a half for my slave", and its jaw dropping. Or in a cafe saying "this tray and also paying for the guy who you wouldnt trust flying a plane" pointing at my indian friend, people dont know what to do.


Anyway im bored of talking shit on this thread, real racial hatred/intimidation is bad, over protecting anti-racism is rediculous and incites trouble more than it saves. Racist jokes mocking rediculous stereotypes are funny, sometimes because you laugh *at* the joke being so crap. Speaking of which...

Originally Posted by worst racist joke ever

Why is Stevie Wonder always smiling?
Because he doesnt know hes black..

o.O

[Mankind]

I am a racist, and I consider it no worse than being a heightist, gingerist, fatbitchist, uglyist or stupidist. BTW most people are genetically heightist and uglyist, and women genetically see men in a different light depending on how much testosterone they were exposed to in the womb.

People have no qualms about cracking jokes about the aforementioned types of people, but suddenly it's wrong because it's about skin colour. I think that's bollocks, and I find racist jokes as funny as any other.

[The Maestro]

I regularly call my black friends nigger, wog, gollywog, big dick
. and they call me a pasty face honky. Vive la difference.