Are we being as ignorant as they are?

[Grael]

Ok after the whole respecting peoples beleifs thread id thought id continue it on a slightly different spin after some reflection on the subjects and chats with newly found priest friend and a fairly new found bf whos a catholic!

So far i have no being very nice to his beliefs and have repeatedly pointing out fatal flaws in his religion (even notably the fact that the catholic church believes gay people have a "disorder") and other contradictions and explaining where the majority if the Christians mythology is from pagan myths and stories.

It has made him think about his faith but he hasnt given it up, we have had proper chats about it and ive calmed down on it now seeing that he uses his faith as a way to chill out, while at mass, he says is very relaxing and when he confesses his "sins" he finds it a good way to speak about his errors in life and is good way of self reflection. But obviously he only confesses what he deems as his sins, he doesnt deem being with me a sin, though his church does, i find this quite contradictory but i suppose its his faith and hes entitled to his own views on such matters.

I really think as atheists theres no point trying to convince someone with faith and what they believe in is not real, it could be said their faith IS whats real, not the sun God. I have changed my mind and maybe have a slightly more mature outlook to it now, it seems religion can be good to some people aslong as they dont take it too seriously! Which isnt always the case ofcause!

But anyway to the main question are we being just as ignorant by saying anyone religious is blinded by their faith? Cause it seems it means a lot to most people and it gives them a light to follow rather then make them fumble blindly in the darkness.

It seems a bit pig ignorant to write off peoples religious beliefs are nothing more than a delusion, we all have our delusions about life, mine being that im better than everyone else but i know thats true and my life is really not worth any more than the council bound scum that surrounds me!

So are being ignorant in this matter? Should we show more respect towards someones beliefs that mean so much to them? Or are they just blinded fools who do nothing but to aid ignorance of the real world and give a twisted ideas on morality?

[Detomah]

I don't believe I am personally ignorant on the subject, I have pondered my beliefs long and hard and believe i've decided on my beliefs through intellegent process. What i'd say I am regarding religion is hypocritical, as I tend to change my tune on the subject depending on my mood, if someone forces their views on me, I used to become a solid religion mocker (I don't do that any more), where as if someone has a nice debate with me on the issue I will listen to their views and take them on board. My one true consistancy regarding religion is that I am an athiest and this has only really become trully apparent in the last couple of years, prior to that I always thought of myself as agnostic. I do not believe in god, the devil, angels, heaven, hell, jesus, mohammed, the bible, the koran or even the spaghetti monster, but I do not have an issue with anyone who does believe in those things, as everyone needs to have faith in something. I do however believe in many things such as paranormal phenomona, x-file type stuff and the likes, but almost all can be scientifically proven at least to a certain degree and in time i'm sure they will much more...

I don't actually know if I would call the ongoing situation throughout the ages between religious and none religious people, ignorance. I feel that maybe it is more down to a lack of understanding of the beliefs and faith of others, but i'd put it mostly down to basic human nature. I believe that many people simply do not like having someone else beliefs forced upon them and throughout the ages religious believers and none believers alike have always tried to force the other to agree with their view point and it has gradually built up so that people have become intolerent to each other, as has been witnessed many times over on TF when religious debates have happened.

My one strong opinion these days on the subject of religion, is that I don't mind who believes in what, so long as it doesn't inflict itself upon me without my permission and so long as someone doesn't force their views upon me when i've not asked for them.

My personal belief and faith is egotistical in a way, as I believe in myself and have faith in myself, i'm not an egoist as I tend to be very selfless with most things, but when it comes to believing in people I have very little faith in others due to having been let down time and time and time and time again and very few people give me any reason at all to question that decision. That doesn't however effect whether I trust people or not, because being unable to trust anyone with anything would be very silly.

I'm sure if anyone bothered to look back at my previous postings about religion, they could probably say "well you never said anything like that last time you posted about religion" and maybe I didn't, but surely that is the beauty of discussing such things, being able to learn and expand my knowledge and at times gaining a lot of information from someone that knows a lot more than me on a subject. A huge argument I had with Osborne a long while ago about religion, resulted in me totally re-thinking my views on religion, albeit not right at that time, but a little while later when what he'd said suddenly hit home to me. It didn't actually change my own beliefs, but it did make me a lot more aware of how forceful I had been towards his and how potentially hurtful to him some of what i'd said to him obviously was. It made me regret taking such an aggressive stance.

[Eraserhead]

Let them believe exactly as they want up until the point where they try to foist those views on other people, and they probably will.

Unfortunately (for everybody), as a mind virus whos actual existance relies on Darwinian like self propagation, Christianity comes equipped with the proper mechanisms for ensuring that it's believers do foist it on the rest of us.

[Grael]

Ye i think i need to stop being so angry at them and at least try to make my views heard in a mature and sensible way if i have any chance of them hearing what i have to say. But i find it hard sometimes seeing as i have always known the cause for such much homophobia in the world is due to religion! Its something i feel very strongly about and i need to chill out if i am going to make a change though.

[Sash]

People can believe what they like so long as they don't try and make me believe it or change what I believe, and especially so long as it doesn't end up hurting people.

[MaKo]

Originally Posted by Grael

new found bf whos a catholic!

what twaddle.

[Grael]

Originally Posted by MaKo

what twaddle.

Its true, thats whats made me re-think things a bit!
But its not really that relevant and i personally couldnt give a shit if you believe me or not!

[Paparika]

Originally Posted by Sash

People can believe what they like so long as they don't try and make me believe it or change what I believe, and especially so long as it doesn't end up hurting people.

the same,

[Tagred]

Why would anyone need religion to feel chilled out though? Isn't that part of the very issue that atheist argu against? People use religion as an emotional blanket, not because there is any truth in it. You dont need religion to be moral, nor do you need it as some kind of guidance on how to live life.

i used to think it had a place in guiding life etc but now i know you dont need to. There is too much overwhelming evidence to support the non-existance of a divine being. And no, science isn't a faith based system as many theists would have you believe.

People who believe in religion are deluded, there is not one single shred of evidence to prove religion or a divine being exists. Theists are just as horrible as atheists, so all this nonsense about non-believers being morally void are untrue. People like Dinesh D'souza really annoy me when they spout such nonsense, especially when he twists and corrupts history and clearly has no idea what the hell he is talking about.

If people want to believe in something that does not exist that's fine, but it's their problem, they should keep it to themselves and not impose it on the rest of society or intrude upon the running of a country. It in itself is immoral and disgusting that such people actually believe in stories ripped off from thousands of other belief systems, twisted and amnipulated in such a way so as to control.

I see that there is nothing wrong with aggressively refuting these delusions, after all without science there would be no progress, and god has nothing to do with progress. It is out of date and people should take charge of their own lives and not wallow in the blind hope that we are more important than we think we are.

Long live evolution, a scientific theory that has never come close to being unproven. first though it would be nice if theists actually understood what the word theory means.

in short grael, its nice that this guy feels he needs religion to feel better about himself, point is, in the catholic eyes, hes a sinner, always will be, so no matter what he does he isnt going to be saved. The fact he is with you is enough for him to go to hell in their eyes, and confession wont take that away. So i reckon he doesnt need religion of any sort to feel better about himself

[emmatot]

each to their own if you ask me, everyone has faith in something so why cant they have faith on their religion? thats always how ive seen it.

[Grael]

Ye i know full well his religion outcasts him and so does he, but he still seems to find some usage out of it all. He doesn't go to mass all the time either, and he works Sundays which according to the bible he should of be killed for LONG ago lol

But surely if they want this emotional blanket thats ok if they dont hurt anyone else? I mean we all have emotional blankets in the form of friends, family etc to keep us sane, safe and happy. Not everyone is has this pleasure, some people have no family or friends, are down and out and suddenly they find this "friend" though imaginary none the less and hes suddenly has this blanket to keep him happy and give him a meaning to his life.
Thats not exactly bad is it? One of the questions we ALWAYS ask our selfs is what is the meaning of this life? Some people cant accept and cant carry on their daily lives facing the reality we are nothing more than animals and our chained to the same fate as them.

One thing that does bug me though, this country is becoming more and more secular, yet it seems as if the countries people are becoming more rebellious and anti-social. Do you think this is because the general mass have no fear anymore? No fear of doing evil things because they know they are not going to hell? Or im maybe thinking the government should be enforcing the law a lot harder now that the God fearing men are no more. So maybe religion in some twisted way did at least keep the masses in control or at least happy. But then i look at places where religion is huge and look at how many problems they have! It seems the more secular states such as Canada and Australia seem to be the most peaceful places on earth!

So im still not entirely sure, im think in some cases it does some good, but overall i dont think it does, however i shall stop from blindly attacking someones beliefs seeing as it does nothing to help anyone.