UK ‘can extradite’ Muslim cleric to US.

Grael · 15-11-2007, 19:50

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9c789cd8-9...0779fd2ac.html

Cannot beleive this! Why the hell doesnt the UK just hand him over and be rid of him? Hes costing us money keeping him jailed he and hes only being jailed for 7 years over here! And by the looks if it, hes done been a part of some SERIOUS terrorist action!
Least in the US he will be locked up and the key thrown away!

-Honchy- · 15-11-2007, 20:52

Because our country is a hole?

A hole run by people too stupid to run a hole.

darktidus · 15-11-2007, 22:23

Perhaps it's because the US demands extradition of us, but if we ask for the same we get stonewalled. The ****s in Washington can't have it both ways.

ShiningForce · 15-11-2007, 23:52

Well the bottom line is our government sucks. I can't figure out if it's the beurocracy, incompetence or the corruption that serves as the major portion of the system...

darktidus · 16-11-2007, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShiningForce

Well the bottom line is our government sucks. I can't figure out if it's the beurocracy, incompetence or the corruption that serves as the major portion of the system...

I'm curious, do you know of any governments since ,say, the industrial revolution, that haven't sucked?

ShiningForce · 16-11-2007, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by darktidus

I'm curious, do you know of any governments since ,say, the industrial revolution, that haven't sucked?

I wasn't aware anything had changed since then.

northern europe (Sweeden, denmark etc) seem to do ok for themselves.

darktidus · 17-11-2007, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShiningForce

I wasn't aware anything had changed since then.

I don't think anything has changed, but our sources are far more reliable and people are generally more familiar with those, than say, a Duke of Saxony from the 14th century.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShiningForce

northern europe (Sweeden, denmark etc) seem to do ok for themselves.

I'd have to dispute that, the Washington Post reported that:

"From 1934 to 1974, 62,000 Swedes were sterilized as part of a national program grounded in the science of racial biology and carried out by officials who believed they were helping to build a progressive, enlightened welfare state...In some cases, couples judged to be inferior parents were sterilized, as were their children when they became teenagers".

Moreover, similar crimes were carried out in Norway, and the Norwegian government has (predictably) been fighting any claims for compensation.

ShiningForce · 17-11-2007, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by darktidus

I don't think anything has changed, but our sources are far more reliable and people are generally more familiar with those, than say, a Duke of Saxony from the 14th century.

I don't get your point.

Quote:

I'd have to dispute that, the Washington Post reported that:

"From 1934 to 1974, 62,000 Swedes were sterilized as part of a national program grounded in the science of racial biology and carried out by officials who believed they were helping to build a progressive, enlightened welfare state...In some cases, couples judged to be inferior parents were sterilized, as were their children when they became teenagers".

Moreover, similar crimes were carried out in Norway, and the Norwegian government has (predictably) been fighting any claims for compensation.

source? Also if thats the worst they've done (and that was over 30 years ago) then I can live with it.

teflon · 18-11-2007, 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grael

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9c789cd8-9...0779fd2ac.html

Least in the US he will be locked up and the key thrown away!

In the US he will probably be executed, the exact reason Britain didn't want to hand him over.

Mankind · 19-11-2007, 04:03

You say what the Swedes did was a crime, but if we don't do the same to chavs now then you won't think the same thing in 50 years when they have bred even more.

darktidus · 20-11-2007, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShiningForce

I don't get your point.

There are far more reliable sources post industrial revolution for rather obvious reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShiningForce

source? Also if thats the worst they've done (and that was over 30 years ago) then I can live with it.

There are plenty of sources, and much worse, I'm rather sleepy but will post again with the details if you're interested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankind

You say what the Swedes did was a crime, but if we don't do the same to chavs now then you won't think the same thing in 50 years when they have bred even more.

Chavs are people mate. Most of them are quite reachable, and you can talk to them if they're not in a big group. If I'm honest, I don't really think chavs are a product of nature, so perhaps addressing the cause rather than the symptoms would be the best way to proceed? I may well be wrong.

Mankind · 20-11-2007, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by darktidus

If I'm honest, I don't really think chavs are a product of nature, so perhaps addressing the cause rather than the symptoms would be the best way to proceed? I may well be wrong.

I don't think they are either. I don't think it's genetic.

I don't like the ethics of social darwinism. But I do think that in a few hundred years, whether you like it or not, there is a big possibility of say, prohibiting certain groups of people from having a lot of, or any, kids, will be a socially accepted viewpoint and not the hideous breach of human rights it seems like now.

Not saying that's a good thing, but I think it may well happen.

That fur-trade thread already shows how different (quite civilised and advanced, in this example) cultures can have completely different views on what is morally acceptable. China might not be as civilised as say, the UK with regards to communist/authoritarian practises, but it's hardly some remote tribe of cannibals who still live in huts. Following from this I think it's entirely possible that a future nation will think of social darwinism etc as simply normal, sensible practises and scoff with disdain at the idea of them not being there.

On the other hand we may just keep getting more civilised and the world will be rid of the death penalty, crime will be down, and things like social darwinism will be a laughable subject, found in history books. Who knows eh

I happen to hate chavs, but I'm well aware that my desire to see them sterilised is not entirely rational, and not ethical either.

15-11-2007, 19:50	#1 (permalink)
Name & Title Grael Avatar Mood Karma Pu2,814.44	UK ‘can extradite’ Muslim cleric to US. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9c789cd8-9...0779fd2ac.html Cannot beleive this! Why the hell doesnt the UK just hand him over and be rid of him? Hes costing us money keeping him jailed he and hes only being jailed for 7 years over here! And by the looks if it, hes done been a part of some SERIOUS terrorist action! Least in the US he will be locked up and the key thrown away!
Name & Title Grael Avatar Mood Karma Pu2,814.44	Grael's Sig:
Tools

15-11-2007, 20:52	#2 (permalink)
Name & Title -Honchy- . Avatar Karma Pu6,961.94	Because our country is a hole? A hole run by people too stupid to run a hole.
Name & Title -Honchy- . Avatar Karma Pu6,961.94
Tools

15-11-2007, 22:23	#3 (permalink)
Name & Title darktidus ... Karma Pu0	Perhaps it's because the US demands extradition of us, but if we ask for the same we get stonewalled. The ****s in Washington can't have it both ways.
Name & Title darktidus ... Karma Pu0
Tools

15-11-2007, 23:52	#4 (permalink)
Name & Title ShiningForce Bucky O' Hare Avatar Karma Pu7,994.60	Well the bottom line is our government sucks. I can't figure out if it's the beurocracy, incompetence or the corruption that serves as the major portion of the system...
	ShiningForce's Sig:
Tools

19-11-2007, 04:03	#10 (permalink)
Name & Title Mankind Full Member Mood Karma Pu17,069.27	You say what the Swedes did was a crime, but if we don't do the same to chavs now then you won't think the same thing in 50 years when they have bred even more.
Name & Title Mankind Full Member Mood Karma Pu17,069.27
Tools