Ministers remove barriers to faith-run schools

[Sash]

Ministers paved the way for more State-funded Muslim, Sikh and Hindu schools yesterday with a pledge to remove "unnecessary barriers" to religious groups.

Ed Balls, the children's minister, said additional money would be made available to allow the hundreds of private religious schools to convert to the state sector.

It is thought the move will lead to a rise in the number of religious places for Muslim, Jewish, Sikh, Hindu, Seventh Day Adventist and Greek Orthodox children.

In a speech yesterday, Mr Balls insisted the expansion would be tempered by new rules forcing all schools to promote better race relations and understanding between religious groups.

He also pledged that officials would "root out" any school guilty of using banned admissions rules such as over-complicated application forms and interviewing pupils to discriminate against certain children.

In a further move, he said new privately-sponsored city academies run by faith groups would have to admit at least half of children from other faiths and non-believing families.

Teaching unions and secular groups branded the plans "plain madness" which would fuel social segregation.

But Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, rejected the idea that church schools "indoctrinate" children. "They offer not a programme of indoctrination, but the possibility of developing a greater level of community cohesion through the understanding of how faith shapes common life," he said.

"This matters for the lives of individuals, whether they are believers or not - because the failure to understand how faith operates leaves us at sea in engaging with our neighbours at local and global level."

Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Westminster, said he welcomed the "public recognition of the contribution made by faith schools to the harmony of our society".

"An ongoing partnership between the Catholic Church and the Government based on the right of Catholic parents - under the Human Rights Act - to choose a Catholic education for their children is a proven way of forming youngsters as good British citizens."

Some 7,000 of the 21,000 state schools in England are religious, with almost all linked to the Anglican and Catholic churches. The schools are popular with parents and many feature among the top of national GCSE and A-level league tables.

However, ministers say there are not enough places for children of other religions, particularly those from Muslim, Sikh and Hindu families.

It is believed that there are 376,000 Muslim children aged between five and 15, but only 1,770 attend England's seven state-funded Muslim schools. Many more pay to attend England's 115 fee-charging private Muslim schools.

A guidance document, Faith in the System, published by the Department for Children, Schools and Families yesterday, said that local councils should "remove unnecessary barriers to the creation of new faith schools" by making it easier for them to convert to the state sector.

Money will come from a mixture of local authority funds and cash direct from Whitehall.

Dr Evan Harris, the Liberal Democrat MP, said the separation of pupils on religious lines was "as unacceptable as racial discrimination and segregation and the last thing this country needs".

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Isn't this just going to segregate people all the more?

[darktidus]

I don't think any state-funded school should have anything to do with religion personally. If we insist on giving the Christian lot schools, then it's only right the rest ask for them. Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

[Sabretooth]

One more way to keep the populous dumb by giving them a fairy-tale education.

[teflon]

It shouldn't be legal to indoctrinate children with rubbish because they aren't old enough to question it.

[draganess]

Wouldn’t it be nice if we could all bring our children up blinkered to the problems this world faces? Have them go to a school that only deals with YOUR specific beliefs so they stay on the straight and narrow. How can children learn to live in this world if they go to school that does not introduce them to the rest of the world?

I very fleetingly thought about sending my children to a private school that was run by my religion (I’m not gonna say what my religion is for obvious reasons) but seen as the kids will grow up and live in a world that is divers in beliefs and understandings I thought it would give them one very huge disadvantage.

I can’t see how this will do anything other than segregating people more. I can also see it causing family problems as someone decides to send their kid to a muslim/jewish or what ever school so they can get a more varied outlook on life. It just won’t work due to the nature of people.

[Paparika]

this is just too much, so many Muslims refuse to integrate with us, but throw barriers at us, pointing the finger at us at the way we do things, and say it's an offense to their religion, hell why not just open the border to them and we all move out....


this isn't going to help one bit in fact the gap will widen and we will be blamed for that too.

[darktidus]

Originally Posted by Paparika

this is just too much, so many Muslims refuse to integrate with us, but throw barriers at us, pointing the finger at us at the way we do things, and say it's an offense to their religion, hell why not just open the border to them and we all move out....


this isn't going to help one bit in fact the gap will widen and we will be blamed for that too.

Sieg heil!

Come on, that's patently false and untrue. You have however, managed to combine irrationality and irresponsibility with inaccuracy, a commendable achievement.

[draganess]

No she hasnt shes voiced her own opinion! I agrea with her. We have seen it happen far too often.

[darktidus]

Originally Posted by draganess

No she hasnt shes voiced her own opinion! I agrea with her. We have seen it happen far too often.

It's not impossible for both to be true. One is certainly allowed the right to voice their opinion, that's not what I've got a problem with. It's the legitimacy of such grievances. I happen to be this fan of 'facts', right, where if you say something, you back it up. Give me the facts. In the meantime I'll sit here and ridicule such unfounded tosh.

[Laz]

Originally Posted by darktidus

It's not impossible for both to be true. One is certainly allowed the right to voice their opinion, that's not what I've got a problem with. It's the legitimacy of such grievances. I happen to be this fan of 'facts', right, where if you say something, you back it up. Give me the facts. In the meantime I'll sit here and ridicule such unfounded tosh.

Ms Kettle, meet Mr Pot. Nothing like an ad vehemence argument.

The problem is that most people prefer to associate with their own background - it's more comfortable. When these choices become barriers, there is usually trouble. Which is better: having several segregated groups going to schools which preserve their culture and ideology, or having one common generic education which minimizes the importance of those cultures and ideologies? For example: Jesuits are arguably some of the finest teachers on the planet - despite some of the actions of their faith.

This argument has been around since the Greeks invented school. When you find a solution that works, let me know.

[darktidus]

Originally Posted by Laz

Ms Kettle, meet Mr Pot. Nothing like an ad vehemence argument.

You seem to have overlooked the difference between our viewpoints. As you well know, when one proposes an argument (as paparika has done here with the claim that muslims refuse to integrate and so on), one needs to provide the evidence for that and as a result has to bear the burden of proof. The skeptic who questions it does not, as shown best with the example of Russell's teapot. If one is prepared to make claims they cannot back up, they have no business making the claims at all.

Originally Posted by Laz

The problem is that most people prefer to associate with their own background - it's more comfortable. When these choices become barriers, there is usually trouble. Which is better: having several segregated groups going to schools which preserve their culture and ideology, or having one common generic education which minimizes the importance of those cultures and ideologies? For example: Jesuits are arguably some of the finest teachers on the planet - despite some of the actions of their faith.

That looks a lot like a false dichotomy. The choice isn't between cultural preservation through segregation or cultural uniformity through integration at all. Rather, both can often be easily achieved, and moreover, they have been achieved. Take Twyford High School some miles from where I live, which combines both integration and cultural preservation quite well. I'd cite the school I went to as an example but it has the dubious honour of being a selective school, and while there was no racial or religious tension (despite the incredible diversity of both those things), there was a lot of intellectual snobbery that did not bode well for encounters with people from standard comprehensives. Which is certainly one reason why I oppose schools that divide or segregate in any manner.