Total Format - Total Entertainment
 
 

Go Back   Total Format Forum > Gaming Forums > Console and Console Gaming Discussion

Console and Console Gaming Discussion If you have something on your mind regarding the many consoles available, hand held devices or any the great games available for them, then you should use this section to chat about them.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 14-09-2005, 19:03   #1 (permalink)
Name, Title WrinklyNinja
.

United Kingdom
Posts3,435
Karma WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
Pu0
Xbox PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html
ToolsWrinklyNinja is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2005, 20:37   #2 (permalink)
Name, Title, Location Harv
Dr Slice n Dice M.s.C.

in bath wiv sash
United Kingdom
AvatarHarv's Avatar
Mood
Posts4,276
Karma Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.
Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.
Pu14,774.16
Critters
Blog
Blog Entries: 10
Awards
TF Top Poster Bronze 
Total Awards: 1
Heart Big Beer Umbrella Sunderland AFC Gift Box Cat 2
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

Copy of article for all you lazy bones

E3 2005: Microsoft's Xbox 360 vs. Sony's PlayStation 3
With Sony's specs out, Microsoft has sent us its a comparitive analysis. What's the outcome?
by Douglass C. Perry

May 20, 2005 - It's 3:30 pm on Friday, May 20, the last day of E3. The fine PR folks from Microsoft, who invited us to their headquarters a week before E3 to show us their system, their specs, and the grand design behind their powerful new Xbox 360, have just sent us an urgent notice to update our specs with new information. Earlier in the day, we were sent a comparative analysis of the Xbox 360's power vs. the PlayStation 3's power.

We decided to put this Microsoft-provided information up undigested. Thus, enclosed is a Microsoft-made comparitive analysis. We have not altered, added, or tinkered with the data. We have not interpreted the specs. We have cut and pasted this information from the email into our site and formatted it. Make of it what you will, but be clear we know Microsoft has clearly slanted this info, and we're not endorsing it, just printing their version. There is a difference.

XBOX 360 / PLAYSTATION 3 PERFORMANCE COMPARISON

SUMMARY
Now that the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 specifications have been announced, it is possible to do a real world performance comparison of the two systems.

There are three critical performance aspects of a console:

* Central Processing Unit (CPU) performance.
* The Xbox 360 CPU architecture has three times the general purpose processing power of the Cell.
* Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) performance
* The Xbox 360 GPU design is more flexible and it has more processing power than the PS3 GPU.
* Memory System Bandwidth
* The memory system bandwidth in Xbox 360 exceeds the PS3's by five times.



The Xbox 360's CPU has more general purpose processing power because it has three general purpose cores, and Cell has just one.



Cell's claimed advantage is on streaming floating point work which is done on its seven DSP processors.


The Xbox 360 GPU has more processing power than the PS3's. In addition, its innovated features contribute to overall rendering performance.



Xbox 360 has 278.4 GB/s of memory system bandwidth. The PS3 has less than one-fifth of Xbox 360's (48 GB/s) of total memory system bandwidth.

CONCLUSION
When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3.

DETAILED ANALYSIS OF PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATIONS

CPU
The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.

The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.

The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.

Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.

Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.

Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.

Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.

Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.

Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.

Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point—probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.




Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.

Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.

GPU
Even ignoring the bandwidth limitations the PS3's GPU is not as powerful as the Xbox 360's GPU.

Below are the specs from Sony's press release regarding the PS3's GPU.

RSX GPU

* 550 MHz
* Independent vertex/pixel shaders
* 51 billion dot products per second (total system performance)
* 300M transistors
* 136 "shader operations" per clock

The interesting ALU performance numbers are 51 billion dot products per second (total system performance), 300M transistors, and more than twice as powerful as the 6800 Ultra.

The 51 billions dot products per cycle were listed on a summary slide of total graphics system performance and are assumed to include the Cell processor. Sony's calculations seem to assume that the Cell can do a dot product per cycle per DSP, despite not having a dot product instruction.

However, using Sony's claim, 7 dot products per cycle * 3.2 GHz = 22.4 billion dot products per second for the CPU. That leaves 51 - 22.4 = 28.6 billion dot products per second that are left over for the GPU. That leaves 28.6 billion dot products per second / 550 MHz = 52 GPU ALU ops per clock.

It is important to note that if the RSX ALUs are similar to the GeForce 6800 ALUs then they work on vector4s, while the Xbox 360 GPU ALUs work on vector5s. The total programmable GPU floating point performance for the PS3 would be 52 ALU ops * 4 floats per op *2 (madd) * 550 MHz = 228.8 GFLOPS which is less than the Xbox 360's 48 ALU ops * 5 floats per op * 2 (madd) * 500 MHz= 240 GFLOPS.

With the number of transistors being slightly larger on the Xbox 360 GPU (330M) it's not surprising that the total programmable GFLOPs number is very close.



The PS3 does have the additional 7 DSPs on the Cell to add more floating point ops for graphics rendering, but the Xbox 360's three general purpose cores with custom D3D and dot product instructions are more customized for true graphics related calculations.

The 6800 Ultra has 16 pixel pipes, 6 vertex pipes, and runs at 400 MHz. Given the RSX's 2x better than a 6800 Ultra number and the higher frequency of the RSX, one can roughly estimate that it will have 24 pixel shading pipes and 4 vertex shading pipes (fewer vertex shading pipes since the Cell DSPs will do some vertex shading). If the PS3 GPU keeps the 6800 pixel shader pipe co-issue architecture which is hinted at in Sony's press release, this again gives it 24 pixel pipes* 2 issued per pipe + 4 vertex pipes = 52 dot products per clock in the GPU.

If the RSX follows the 6800 Ultra route, it will have 24 texture samplers, but when in use they take up an ALU slot, making the PS3 GPU in practice even less impressive. Even if it does manage to decouple texture fetching from ALU co-issue, it won't have enough bandwidth to fetch the textures anyways.

For shader operations per clock, Sony is most likely counting each pixel pipe as four ALU operations (co-issued vector+scalar) and a texture operation per pixel pipe and 4 scalar operations for each vector pipe, for a total of 24 * (4 + 1) + (4*4) = 136 operations per cycle or 136 * 550 = 74.8 GOps per second.

Given the Xbox 360 GPU's multithreading and balanced design, you really can't compare the two systems in terms of shading operations per clock. However, the Xbox 360's GPU can do 48 ALU operations (each can do a vector4 and scalar op per clock), 16 texture fetches, 32 control flow operations, and 16 programmable vertex fetch operations with tessellation per clock for a total of 48*2 + 16 + 32 + 16 = 160 operations per cycle or 160 * 500 = 80 GOps per second.



Overall, the automatic shader load balancing, memory export features, programmable vertex fetching, programmable triangle tesselator, full rate texture fetching in the vertex shader, and other "well beyond shader model 3.0" features of the Xbox 360 GPU should also contribute to overall rendering performance.

Bandwidth
The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.



Why does the Xbox 360 have such an extreme amount of bandwidth? Even the simplest calculations show that a large amount of bandwidth is consumed by the frame buffer. For example, with simple color rendering and Z testing at 550 MHz the frame buffer alone requires 52.8 GB/s at 8 pixels per clock. The PS3's memory bandwidth is insufficient to maintain its GPU's peak rendering speed, even without texture and vertex fetches.

The PS3 uses Z and color compression to try to compensate for the lack of memory bandwidth. The problem with Z and color compression is that the compression breaks down quickly when rendering complex next-generation 3D scenes.

HDR, alpha-blending, and anti-aliasing require even more memory bandwidth. This is why Xbox 360 has 256 GB/s bandwidth reserved just for the frame buffer. This allows the Xbox 360 GPU to do Z testing, HDR, and alpha blended color rendering with 4X MSAA at full rate and still have the entire main bus bandwidth of 22.4 GB/s left over for textures and vertices.

CONCLUSION
When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3.
Lastly, we were sent updated spec numbers on the Xbox's numbers, and we spoke with Microsoft's Vice President of hardware, Todd Holmdahl, about the Xbox 360's final transistor count.

Another bit of information sent our way is the final transistor count for Xbox 360's graphics subset. The GPU totals 332 million transistors, which is spit between the two separate dies that make up the part. The parent die is the "main" piece of the GPU, handling the large bulk of the graphics rendering, and is comprised of 232 million transistors. The daughter die contains the system's 10MB of embedded DRAM and its logic chip, which is capable of some additional 3D math. The daughter die totals an even 100 million transistors, bringing the total transistor count for the GPU to 232 million.
Tools Harv is online now
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 15-09-2005, 04:20   #3 (permalink)
Name, Title teflon
.

United Kingdom
Avatarteflon's Avatar
Posts8,488
Karma teflon is outstanding.teflon is outstanding.teflon is outstanding.
teflon is outstanding.teflon is outstanding.teflon is outstanding.teflon is outstanding.teflon is outstanding.teflon is outstanding.
Pu26,506.48
Liverpool FC Cash Big Beer
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

still, the ps3's 7/8 processors according to quantum theory, could if programmed properly, outperform the 360 by about 14 million to 1.
Toolsteflon is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 15-09-2005, 10:27   #4 (permalink)
Name, Title WrinklyNinja
.

United Kingdom
Posts3,435
Karma WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
Pu0
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by teflon
still, the ps3's 7/8 processors according to quantum theory, could if programmed properly, outperform the 360 by about 14 million to 1.
I assume youve read all of the article.

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/article...g_2812611.html

then


http://media.xbox360.ign.com/article...g_2812597.html

Then I will draw your attention to

"Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult."

"A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to."

"
The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games."

Zaammk, even after that article swears blindly that the ps3 will be better. It should be an all round better system to have, but for games alone, the Xbox 360 will be the better console. And it has live.

Doesnt matter to me really though... Im gonna be getting both in the long run.
ToolsWrinklyNinja is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 15-09-2005, 11:42   #5 (permalink)
Name, Title, Location Tagred
Sometime Helper :P

Birmingham, UK
England
AvatarTagred's Avatar
Mood
Posts7,333
Karma Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.
Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.
Pu10,595.39
Blog
Blog Entries: 2
Awards
TF Top Poster Bronze TF Top Poster - Silver TF Top Poster - Gold 
Total Awards: 3
Banana Monkey Monkey Mammoth Lion Cat 2 Baby Dragon Book Monkey Little Fishy Cash Banana Big Beer Pizza Medal

Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

in 18months time, i'll just buy a new motherboard and cpu for the pc. Job done, and it will be as or more powerful as an ageing xbox360 & ps3.
Tagred's Sig:
KEEP TFing
ToolsTagred is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links

Old 15-09-2005, 12:52   #6 (permalink)
Name, Title, Location Forge
Gaming Junkie

NSW, Australia
Australia
AvatarForge's Avatar
Posts585
Karma Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.
Pu645.20
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tagred
in 18months time, i'll just buy a new motherboard and cpu for the pc. Job done, and it will be as or more powerful as an ageing xbox360 & ps3.
But then, in 18 months we'll all be talking about the Xbox '720 and PSIV.

Myself, don't care about specs, as long as the games are good then i'm sorted. Specs, I worry about when it comes to my PC, consoles I worry about the games.
Forge's Sig:Innovation and imagination are the key…
ToolsForge is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 15-09-2005, 17:24   #7 (permalink)
Name, Title WrinklyNinja
.

United Kingdom
Posts3,435
Karma WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
Pu0
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tagred
in 18months time, i'll just buy a new motherboard and cpu for the pc. Job done, and it will be as or more powerful as an ageing xbox360 & ps3.
I used to have that view. Then I thought. Well for 280 pounds. Im getting an online gaming system. With supreme graphics, that I cannot possibly imagine getting better (look at killzone (providing it is game footage) how can u go up from that)

+ these consoles are HD ready.

And a PC is really expensive. Up to this point I have been a PC fanboy, but now I just want a system that can provide super cool graphics, give me the online play I want and still let me use my pc monitor (maybe even my keyboard and mouse). Then as soon as we get a HD tv, I can shove it on that. And have super cool graphics.

The past consoles looked ****, thats the reason I dident get any of them. But now the graphics are good. The gameplay will also be excellent because the game industry has matured and most of the dev teams are well known PC devs aswel. Also, the new power of these machines means more and more games can have awsome physics, HDR lighting as standard (only just touched upon in PC Games)

Sure, graphics will get even better. But when they do, I wont care
ToolsWrinklyNinja is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 15-09-2005, 20:57   #8 (permalink)
Name, Title, Location Tagred
Sometime Helper :P

Birmingham, UK
England
AvatarTagred's Avatar
Mood
Posts7,333
Karma Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.
Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.
Pu10,595.39
Blog
Blog Entries: 2
Awards
TF Top Poster Bronze TF Top Poster - Silver TF Top Poster - Gold 
Total Awards: 3
Banana Monkey Monkey Mammoth Lion Cat 2 Baby Dragon Book Monkey Little Fishy Cash Banana Big Beer Pizza Medal

Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozdormu
But then, in 18 months we'll all be talking about the Xbox '720 and PSIV.

Myself, don't care about specs, as long as the games are good then i'm sorted. Specs, I worry about when it comes to my PC, consoles I worry about the games.
I doubt that they will realease a new console only after 18months, the company has to be able to recoup its R&D stuff. I would say that an average console has around a 3-5yr shelf life before a new one is on the market.

Very true on the PC front, it is about the specs, but then the beauty is, that almost everything you had before would still work with the new cards and motherboards etc.

I do like consoles on the odd occasion, but i prefer PC's for the versatility. Maybe i might buy a new xbox after a bit, (especially when the mods come out ), but it will have to blow me off.. i mean away
Tagred's Sig:
KEEP TFing
ToolsTagred is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 15-09-2005, 21:03   #9 (permalink)
Name, Title, Location Tagred
Sometime Helper :P

Birmingham, UK
England
AvatarTagred's Avatar
Mood
Posts7,333
Karma Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.
Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.
Pu10,595.39
Blog
Blog Entries: 2
Awards
TF Top Poster Bronze TF Top Poster - Silver TF Top Poster - Gold 
Total Awards: 3
Banana Monkey Monkey Mammoth Lion Cat 2 Baby Dragon Book Monkey Little Fishy Cash Banana Big Beer Pizza Medal

Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WrinklyNinja
I used to have that view. Then I thought. Well for 280 pounds. Im getting an online gaming system. With supreme graphics, that I cannot possibly imagine getting better (look at killzone (providing it is game footage) how can u go up from that)

+ these consoles are HD ready.

And a PC is really expensive. Up to this point I have been a PC fanboy, but now I just want a system that can provide super cool graphics, give me the online play I want and still let me use my pc monitor (maybe even my keyboard and mouse). Then as soon as we get a HD tv, I can shove it on that. And have super cool graphics.

The past consoles looked ****, thats the reason I dident get any of them. But now the graphics are good. The gameplay will also be excellent because the game industry has matured and most of the dev teams are well known PC devs aswel. Also, the new power of these machines means more and more games can have awsome physics, HDR lighting as standard (only just touched upon in PC Games)

Sure, graphics will get even better. But when they do, I wont care
There is absolutely nothing that a console does that a PC cant do, ok it will take up to 18months for PC's to catch up. but when they do, they invariably end up overtaking them for specs. Nearly all decent graphics cards now will attach to a TV screen, it depends if you have a decent TV.

PC displays up until now have always had a resolution far too high for TV, but with HDTV that changes. The games industry is over 25yrs old, so its had plenty of time to mature long before now, its just that they like to regurgitate any old crap to get the quick bucks in, (though there are a lot of exceptions).

You wont see the full potential of any of the new consoles for at least 2yrs, as peeps really get to grips with its architecture.

Anywho, as gaming machine they are great, I cant argue with that, but they are still very limited, they have hard drives now, whats next? A mouse and a keyboard? lol, see where im going lol.

Oh and wronkles, can you point me to an official ladder for Battlefield2? I want to know when u get to be a corporal and stuff, ta.
Tagred's Sig:
KEEP TFing
ToolsTagred is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 15-09-2005, 21:58   #10 (permalink)
Name, Title WrinklyNinja
.

United Kingdom
Posts3,435
Karma WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
Pu0
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

http://ubar.bf2s.com/

To get ranks and stats, you need to play on ranked servers(not any ladders etc, u earn ranks by just playing on ranked servers). Now, looking at ur sig thing, it either hasent updated in ages, or u havent been playing on ranked servers.

I assume u have the all seeing eye, if not you can get it here: http://videogames.yahoo.com/multiplayer . Its spyware and ad free. But it does have a very good search function. Where you can set what map size you want, if you want the servers to be ranked etc.

On my filters I have: Ranked, Size 64 maps, voice comms.

Note: if you set the map size to 32, the refresh will take longer because there are like 900 servers. Although the 64 map servers (my personal fav) there are only 300ish.

Another nifty feature is that it shows you not only the ping, but which country the server is based in, so its easy to just click the country tab at the top then locate all the British flags.

ok off topic thing over, infact if u want tag u can delete this post after uve read it..
ToolsWrinklyNinja is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2005, 04:42   #11 (permalink)
Name, Title, Location Forge
Gaming Junkie

NSW, Australia
Australia
AvatarForge's Avatar
Posts585
Karma Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.Forge is a capable TFer.
Pu645.20
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tagred
I doubt that they will realease a new console only after 18months, the company has to be able to recoup its R&D stuff. I would say that an average console has around a 3-5yr shelf life before a new one is on the market.
No, perhaps not. But the best games of a console come within the first 18months of its life in my opinion, and you can bet this time next year everyone will be talking about the next set of consoles, they wont be out for another few years, but people will still be talking, as crazy as it sounds. That's the point I was trying to get across. Sony & Microsoft are going to be hit very hard as they'll be loosing so much money on the PS3 and '360.
Forge's Sig:Innovation and imagination are the key…
ToolsForge is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2005, 13:55   #12 (permalink)
Name, Title, Location Tagred
Sometime Helper :P

Birmingham, UK
England
AvatarTagred's Avatar
Mood
Posts7,333
Karma Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.
Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.Tagred is incredible.
Pu10,595.39
Blog
Blog Entries: 2
Awards
TF Top Poster Bronze TF Top Poster - Silver TF Top Poster - Gold 
Total Awards: 3
Banana Monkey Monkey Mammoth Lion Cat 2 Baby Dragon Book Monkey Little Fishy Cash Banana Big Beer Pizza Medal

Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozdormu
No, perhaps not. But the best games of a console come within the first 18months of its life in my opinion, and you can bet this time next year everyone will be talking about the next set of consoles, they wont be out for another few years, but people will still be talking, as crazy as it sounds. That's the point I was trying to get across. Sony & Microsoft are going to be hit very hard as they'll be loosing so much money on the PS3 and '360.
Good point, they will be talking about them, but it wont improve the ones already on the market.

I'm of a different opnion with the best games coming out at the beginning, I think you certainly get some of the most memorable, and maybe you do get the odd good one. But I think when you have the dev tools and actually really tear apart the architecture of a machine, it takes time to optimise and get that coding efficient as possible. Unfortunately the games market is mostly still about knocking them out first, solve problems later.

I could be grossly wrong though, it could be completely different with the 360 and ps3. I wait with interest, and if they are that good, i might get one
Tagred's Sig:
KEEP TFing
ToolsTagred is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2005, 15:28   #13 (permalink)
Name, Title, Location RocKtheCasbaH
Full Member

Middlesbrough
United Kingdom
AvatarRocKtheCasbaH's Avatar
Mood
Posts258
Karma RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.RocKtheCasbaH is a competent TFer.
Pu4,410.13
Umbrella
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

I've pre-ordered the 360 because it's out alot earlier than the PS3.
I think the games will be very similar in terms of graphics it'll come down to the old loyalties in the end.
I've always prefered the xbox line up over PS2 and GC as it's more to my taste.

and I wouldn't look at it as a PC replacement as FPS games will always be better on a PC but last I heard Microsoft hadn't ruled out a mouse and keyboard for the 360 : http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09...s_6132546.html

At the end of the day though you can't do online banking and buy DVD's on a 360 but you can have great gaming for 20% of the price of a top end pc with the same graphics and power, assuming like me and 99% of the population, you don't know how to build your own.

Although MMORPG's would be a thing of the past for me if I went exclusivley over to the 360
ToolsRocKtheCasbaH is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2005, 18:07   #14 (permalink)
Name, Title, Location Harv
Dr Slice n Dice M.s.C.

in bath wiv sash
United Kingdom
AvatarHarv's Avatar
Mood
Posts4,276
Karma Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.
Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.
Pu14,774.16
Critters
Blog
Blog Entries: 10
Awards
TF Top Poster Bronze 
Total Awards: 1
Heart Big Beer Umbrella Sunderland AFC Gift Box Cat 2
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WrinklyNinja
"Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult."
I hate to mention it but the xbox 360 comes with 3 cores each with 2 threads per core.

This means that both xbox360 and ps3 will concentrate their power on multi-threaded, multi-processor programming. This is hard lines for those games companies employees that don’t have what it takes to learn a new approach to programming, but lets be honest if you make a living out of programming you sure as hell aren’t going to sit back and leave everyone else to exploit the power of multi-cell/processors and stick with single core programming as in a few months from release you will be out of a job and Mr Multi-thread superdupa junior will be taking your salary.

Maybe this is a hard line to swallow, but it will, 100%, be the way it goes. The thing about the computing industry is if hardware has the ability to do something then you will get programmers who go to the edge and say " we want more " this is why we have new consoles.

And also you have to remember that the ps IV and the xbox 720 are not only around the corner ( ok maybe 5 years down the line before they hit the public ) but are most probably on the R&D workbench being given god knows what controllers and WTF processor power to turn the gamers knees to jelly and programmers brains to pus.

Both new consoles FEATURE multi cores xbox has 3, ps has 8 ( of which 7 will function correctly ) testing one core against another, not now, nor in the future will ever be a fair test environment.

All you can really say is that under current test conditions on a single core xbox comes out faster. Which in itself is obvious as otherwise the ps3 would only have 3 cores as well. They have sacrificed single cell power for multi cell stack ability.

In the end both consoles will have one hell of a lot of power to offer and its going to take some time before dev's can exploit that power but be assured if any dev rests on their Loral’s for a little too long they will get blown away by all the bleeding edge programmers with the guts to embrace the new methodologies needed to fully exploit the new hardware.
Tools Harv is online now
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2005, 18:44   #15 (permalink)
Name, Title WrinklyNinja
.

United Kingdom
Posts3,435
Karma WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
Pu0
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

The cell processor does not work in the case of "cores". Thats why they have never been reffered to as cores. They work as 8 seperate processors. Unlike the 360s 3 processors. with the 2 hardware threads. Threads and seperate processors.

""Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.""

PROCESSORS not CORES. note the wording.
ToolsWrinklyNinja is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2005, 19:53   #16 (permalink)
Name, Title, Location Harv
Dr Slice n Dice M.s.C.

in bath wiv sash
United Kingdom
AvatarHarv's Avatar
Mood
Posts4,276
Karma Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.
Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.Harv is outstanding.
Pu14,774.16
Critters
Blog
Blog Entries: 10
Awards
TF Top Poster Bronze 
Total Awards: 1
Heart Big Beer Umbrella Sunderland AFC Gift Box Cat 2
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

Quote:
Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.
I refer you back to my response.

Quote:
its going to take some time before dev's can exploit that power but be assured if any dev rests on their Loral’s for a little too long they will get blown away by all the bleeding edge programmers with the guts to embrace the new methodologies needed to fully exploit the new hardware.
Programmers are the same as any other branch of experts they will never like or embrace somthing that makes their lives harder. Yes programming for 8 seperate cells ( i dont mind mixing words when they are only being used to force uninformed opinions ) is hard and is going to be a while in perfecting but so was moving to object oriented programming, so was understanding that 1MB was no longer a limit to memory, so was actually realising that the pentium had a seperate floating point system to the main cpu and so was realising that parallel processing was achiveable and worthwhile.

Just because new technology is not fully understood does not make it less powerful. You still cant compare current technolgy games with fiuture development hardware.

All the article actually says is the xbox 360 has more in common with current game writing developments than the PS3.

And for what its worth i think i will probably buy an xbox 360 because of its frontrunning in other areas, like ther xbox live offereings which are much further advanced than Sony's offerings.

I still believe thou that post-release ( prob 6-8 months after ) the ps3 will turn out to be THE hardware to emulate and the xbox360 will quickly come on with firmware updates ( which it has already pushed as being downloadable free ) and become a compleatly different beast after a few months on the shelves.
Tools Harv is online now
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2005, 20:29   #17 (permalink)
Name, Title WrinklyNinja
.

United Kingdom
Posts3,435
Karma WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.WrinklyNinja is a pro when it comes to TF.
Pu0
Default Re: PS3 VS. XBOX 360! 360 faster?

Oh btw, I ordered my Xbox 360 tonight
ToolsWrinklyNinja is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
360, faster, ps3, xbox

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Release Dates October 2006 All Formats Harv General Gaming Discussion 1 04-10-2006 00:44
Leaked PS3 QnA Nemesis Console and Console Gaming Discussion 9 12-07-2006 01:14
Xbox 360 Delights Revan Console and Console Gaming Discussion 0 13-03-2006 09:17
Xbox 360 annoyance's Revan Console and Console Gaming Discussion 12 13-03-2006 01:34
Best And Worst Of 2005 Fallen-Angel General Gaming Discussion 0 18-12-2005 14:32

 
 
Archive - RSS Feeds - About Us - Privacy - Terms of Use - Site Map - Advertising - Link To TF - Contact Us - Top
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5 Copyright ©2003 - 2000, Total Format. Forums powered by vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385