Coding, Design & GraphicsIf you are programming a script, designing a web page, building your own graphics or anything related and need to discuss it, get help and tips or general advice, then you should post your thoughts to this section.
All of the current browsers support the CSS property display:inline-block, but how many people actually use up to date browsers? What sort of percentages are we looking at?
Is it better to not use such CSS properties, or a browser detection script to display old html code with a handy upgrade notice?
Well, i'd say most people using Firefox are on the latest version, I loaded it up yesterday to check something and it automatically made sure it was the latest version of itself, but when I think about it, having auto updates turned on with Microsoft pretty much ensures i'm up to date with that too. Can't really say with Opera, but Safari runs a similar thing.
With that, in my opinion there's only a couple of reasons people would be not up to date, one being if they are control freaks who have to make every single decision and hate the computer doing anything at all without their say so, or if they have some reason for not wanting to connect for updates, such as pirated software, as in the case with lots of people and Windows. The only other proper reason people wouldn't be auto updating, is if they are using really really old software that doesn't have all those whistles and bells built in and that the people using that don't know about upgrading, but those people are most probably suffering from viruses and trojans and aren't even aware of that either.
I tend to the side of using every bit of code available to me. But at the same time, I do use a lot of ready made scripts and most of those are fully w3c and cross browser, backwards compliant, so generally it's not something I have to worry about too much. I know in the case of TF, nothing is really so far advanced that people can't enjoy the modern bits, but nothing is so backwards that it feels antiquated, I think TF achieves a happy medium.
Well, i'd say most people using Firefox are on the latest version, I loaded it up yesterday to check something and it automatically made sure it was the latest version of itself, but when I think about it, having auto updates turned on with Microsoft pretty much ensures i'm up to date with that too. Can't really say with Opera, but Safari runs a similar thing.
With that, in my opinion there's only a couple of reasons people would be not up to date, one being if they are control freaks who have to make every single decision and hate the computer doing anything at all without their say so, or if they have some reason for not wanting to connect for updates, such as pirated software, as in the case with lots of people and Windows. The only other proper reason people wouldn't be auto updating, is if they are using really really old software that doesn't have all those whistles and bells built in and that the people using that don't know about upgrading, but those people are most probably suffering from viruses and trojans and aren't even aware of that either.
I tend to the side of using every bit of code available to me. But at the same time, I do use a lot of ready made scripts and most of those are fully w3c and cross browser, backwards compliant, so generally it's not something I have to worry about too much. I know in the case of TF, nothing is really so far advanced that people can't enjoy the modern bits, but nothing is so backwards that it feels antiquated, I think TF achieves a happy medium.
I just found this: Browser Statistics and it shows that a massive number of people are still using ie6 & ie7. that's a bit pants. i dont know how accurate that is, as there is no ie8 listed.
on the one hand if we don't use the code, we'll never progress.. but while we do use it we are pushing out the people that are yet to upgrade. it is a dilemma.
I just found this: Browser Statistics and it shows that a massive number of people are still using ie6 & ie7. that's a bit pants. i dont know how accurate that is, as there is no ie8 listed.
on the one hand if we don't use the code, we'll never progress.. but while we do use it we are pushing out the people that are yet to upgrade. it is a dilemma.
Those figures look absolutely nothing like the figures I have on my server, For TF for December, it was 52% - IE7+ , 32% - Firefox 3 , 4% - Safari , 1% - Opera and 11% other, with the other covering older versions of FF and IE, as well as chrome and the likes.
If certain commands are used and people don't have the software to run it, at worst it generally makes the page look a bit abnormal, it doesn't normally stop the page loading at all. It doesn't normally ruin the visitors experience.
What i'd say is a damn sight worse, is mobile browsing, very few websites are mobile enabled, TF isn't, I know TF is viewable, but it isn't the most pleasurable experience if done with a mobile. It's something I'll be working on soon, but a lot of sites have no means of doing such a thing as they would need compeltely redesigning from the ground up. Fortunately with TF being vBulletin based, the technology is already built in to the software by default and just needs me to tweak some bits to make it all work nicely.
In my opinion coders have to be a little selfish and do what is best for the end result rather than the viewer, because people are generally very bad when it comes to any kind of change and very quickly get set in their ways, making it so that coders have little choice but to lead the way and force the issue of progress.
I use FF3 while i have games/apps running and IE7 running otherwise.The other 2 PCs in the house are using IE6 and IE7.
It probably varies a lot depending on website. Id expect a lot of people using XP are still on IE6 and XP has a huge share of the market still.
On my mobile, TF gets flagged as an over18 site by orange so i cant view it cos i need to phone them up and say gief me adult internet plx. Apparently you can apply to be allowed within orange safeguard or whatever.
I still use IE6, I know it wel and know how to controll it, and can turn off all the evill bits
it works well enough most of the time, ive only ever upgraded before becuase the previous versions
wernt realy adequate. there are so many sites that can do realy good jobs and still use IE6.
many web site developers are often told it has to be able to run on IE6 as its the most common browser.
I still use IE6, I know it wel and know how to controll it, and can turn off all the evill bits
it works well enough most of the time, ive only ever upgraded before becuase the previous versions
wernt realy adequate. there are so many sites that can do realy good jobs and still use IE6.
many web site developers are often told it has to be able to run on IE6 as its the most common browser.
Its probably the most annoying part of web design/programming, not being able to use fancy new stuff until about 10 years after its invented because so many home users and offices cba to upgrade their default browsers.
fancy new stuff might be 'fun' but if you know what your doing you can do just about almost everything thats needed with IE6. the available web development systems are quite sophistacted and allow you to do so much so easily. you can do so much with .net stuff it almost by passes the browsers capablities. you can write full desktop aplications and then convert them to run identically via a browser window, in fact i used this feature a while ago as it actually allowed me to do something via an IE6 browser window that I couldnt even do in the desktop applications using standard libraries. (nested data grid views)
at least from a user point of view its enough, maybe from a web site designer that wants to take more control of what you do etc. ive also found theres such a vast library of stuff that works for IE6. most web sites use the current features wich are available with IE6 so ineficiently its pointless complaining that people arnt upgrading.
also its more that browser designers havnt got the message that current versions need to be kept up to date not just abandoned and a completly new version produced wich is changed so radiclly that eveything is different it takes some time and effort to install and set up how you like it and sort out all the new problems etc.
the majority of users arnt computer geeks who like to keep up to date with eveything just for the sake of it. some people only have the time or like to only use the computer for what they need it to do, not spend ages on the computer for the sake of the computer itself.
if a website expects me to upgrade to see it il simply ignore it, theres so many other sites, its only when I actually realy need something that only that site offers that I may consider it.
I recently helped someone who was complaining about this very sort of thing, it was easy to google for an equivalent solution that worked fine in IE6 and no need for an upgrade notice wich the web site owner decided wasnt aceptable.
it shows that a massive number of people are still using ie6 & ie7. that's a bit pants. i dont know how accurate that is, as there is no ie8 listed.
on the one hand if we don't use the code, we'll never progress.. but while we do use it we are pushing out the people that are yet to upgrade. it is a dilemma.
Be fair, IE8 is still in beta2 so it isn't even released yet so expecting a huge uptake is not going to happen.
I didn't move to IE7 till I went to vista as it always crashed my XP PC. Why M$ think they can release beta software and think it will automatically be adopted is beyond me.
FF3 is much more stable and offers less exploits ( as can be seen by the amount of updates IE receives ).
They are starting to get a bit anal now with releases as they both put new ideas into the software and then rush another release thru because they didn't include an idea that everyone likes in their competitors version.
They should stick to major releases when they make major changes. They went all the way to IE5.5 because it had no Seriously mind blowing changes, 6 was a new start, 7 was for vista 8 is just because....
I think IE is probably on 6.3 atm but M$ just want it to seem newer. Maybe they think tabs deserved a new number
What i'd say is a damn sight worse, is mobile browsing, very few websites are mobile enabled, TF isn't, I know TF is viewable, but it isn't the most pleasurable experience if done with a mobile. It's something I'll be working on soon, but a lot of sites have no means of doing such a thing as they would need compeltely redesigning from the ground up. Fortunately with TF being vBulletin based, the technology is already built in to the software by default and just needs me to tweak some bits to make it all work nicely.
Actually, I would personally choose not to develop a site for mobile - nothing significant anyway. on my windows mobile based device i use Opera Mini browser, and on my iPod touch (same is iPhone) safari browser is fantastic. i prefer to browse the websites designed with higher resolution in mind on these browsers - i find you lose functionality when you develop for mobile, and these mobile devices support the majority of technologies.
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