The Big DebateIf you feel the need to get your teeth stuck right into a heavy debate on a subject you feel really passionate about, then this is the place to do so. Post about religion, politics, laws and all things juicy like that here.
have you noticed all those that are for abortion are alive?
Have you noticed how that's a poor argument, since strangely enough so are all the people against abortion. Funny also how some extreme pro-lifers are willing to take the very thing they claim to be campaigning to protect.
For the record, I'm very much pro-choice and that's never going to change. All you ever hear in the "media" is stories about how teenagers are using the procedure as just another form of contraception, and people buy into this rubbish completely overlooking the fact that it's not just girls who can't keep their pants on and have no idea what a condom is that might be using these services.
My humble opinion is that forcing a child on parents who aren't capable of raising it is the greater "evil". Be it that they're not emotionally mature enough, not financially stable enough, whatever reason. Sure, advancements in birth control mean that if you definitely don't want children it's 99.9% certain you can avoid it. But taking away this service from the people who were genuinely careful, who are the unfortunate ones, is not something I believe is a good idea or the right thing to do.
I do believe, however, that more needs to be done to educate kids about precisely what sex entails. The unfortunate by-product of present society, where sex sells and it's so often portrayed in a glossed-over "it's all good, what could go wrong?" kind of way, seems to be that kids don't know squat or are adopting the same somewhat carefree attitude towards it that's portrayed on TV. (That said, I do know of a few tv shows that have run story lines to highlight some of the dangers of irresponsible sex.)
without a good start in life one is somewhat more likely to end up in crime.
if people are forced to have unwated children this hardly makes for a good start in life, and you have to wonder if they will then go on to be on death row.
I think being against abortion and for the death penalty is the most contradictory viewpoint of the various combinations.
Not in my book, one is guilty of terrible crimes and the other is completely innocent. I'll leave you to work out which is which as it's somewhat unusual for an explanation to be necessary
Not in my book, one is guilty of terrible crimes and the other is completely innocent. I'll leave you to work out which is which as it's somewhat unusual for an explanation to be necessary
But what has that got to do with the sanctity of life?
Innocence and guilt are basic human concepts that vary massively through out the various cultures of the world. How can a life be designated as worthy or not, based on what is actually nothing more than a simple thumbs up or thumbs down style human proclaimation.
In the eyes of terrorists, their campaigns, that often result in the loss of human life, are fully justified as part of the right of war, not an act of terrorism. Clearly throughout the world, death as a result of serving your country is classed as acceptable losses if it is in the name of war in the west, yet the exact same people condemn the worlds terrorists for what in their minds is nothing more than fiighting a battle in a war. These so called terrorists see the western invaders as murderers and war criminals, therefore, surely with your argument, you are saying they are justified by their actions, based on one word guilt.
Through the eyes of many, conception out of wedlock is a terrible crime... So with that, the unborn featus is the bastard work of the devil and does not deserve life. Hang on... Wait one second here... Hell I don't think religion even has their own stance on abortion clear, never mind me trying to use it in any kind of coherent fashion for the sake of argument.... Simple fact is, is that a human life is more often than not, a basic fuck that produced a little more than the intended orgasm and the people invovled in said act are in no way shape or form ready, able or capable of that time of bringing that creation into the world... In other cases, the sex may not have even been permitted, the featus may be deformed, it may have an immediate drug, alcohol or nicotine addiction... There are plenty of reasons to not let it get full term and hatched.
One reason above all else is simply that sex has become a hobby, a past time, something to do during boring moments, a way to simply get rid of stress, to get rid of dirty water, to simply knock one off... At what point during that is there a planned life. You just have to look at countries like China to see what happens when people fuck unrerservedly without any use of contraception. Female babies end up in the Yangtze with a plastic bag on their heads, becuase they simply aren't wanted. They have had to put strict laws in place to basically make it illegal to have more than two children without special licence.
Last edited by Detomah; 07-08-2009 at 17:19..
Reason: fixed a couple of spotted typos.
Not in my book, one is guilty of terrible crimes and the other is completely innocent. I'll leave you to work out which is which as it's somewhat unusual for an explanation to be necessary
but what if that person was the result of being refused an abortion ?
but what if that person was the result of being refused an abortion ?
"What if" is not a term I use if possible when dealing with factual issues and I don't put labels on different factions in society such as 'pro-life' etc. It muddles peoples heads to the point whereby facts become blurred.
Put simply, we kill about 200,000 unborn innocent children each year. Thant is unacceptable in my book. Alongside that we reject the death penalty for those murderers who have deliberately taken the lives of other innocent people. And people wonder why we're a mixed up (broken) society with values like that
"What if" is not a term I use if possible when dealing with factual issues and I don't put labels on different factions in society such as 'pro-life' etc. It muddles peoples heads to the point whereby facts become blurred.
Put simply, we kill about 200,000 unborn innocent children each year. Thant is unacceptable in my book. Alongside that we reject the death penalty for those murderers who have deliberately taken the lives of other innocent people. And people wonder why we're a mixed up (broken) society with values like that
omg your one of those "every sperm is sacred" types ?
every time you masturbate you kill about 10million potential human beings ,,,
At some point or another, someone is always going to say something daft on a so-called serious subject. Meow, you're in a Serious Topical Debates thread. Tell me the right thread and I'll happily exchange nonsense comments with you.
Its no more nonsense than calling abortion murder.
Fair enough, by the legal definition of murder, it's not. Next question please because before 1967 it was murder. What shall we call it now - legalised murder ? The abortion laws had to be written specifically so as to exclude it from that of murder laws.
NB the original abortion laws were introduced on the basis that only a few hundred actual abortions would take place each year because of exceptional circumstances eg. medical abnormalities, rape cases etc. Question; how have we managed to justify moving from a few hundred to 200, 000 legalised murders in 42 years. By the way, we're also at the top of the league in Europe for legalised murder.
Last edited by Bilko; 08-08-2009 at 07:54..
Reason: additional text
Its not like you to give in that easily, the legal definition is after all under our control, although realistically unlikely to be changed.
the tricky part is always where to draw the line, as you point out the law firmly defines the line as the moment the baby is born.
some people try to draw the line based upon how our medical science has progressed towards keeping ever younger babies alive and state that extremely premature babies can survive.
However it has also been shown that one of the major factors of certain mental health problems is premature birth or other birth trauma. Ive already made the point of the significance of mental health problems and the further disadvantage of being an unwanted baby and how that might lead to crossing the law.
some people take issue about late term abortions, well the issue here is that availability is the problem as there is a waiting list, if people truly wanted to do something positive they would tackle that aspect, rather than making it less available.
but there was a serious point to my comment, even if it was put with some humour, that is - does life really start at the moment of conception , ie when one cell becomes fertilised and before it has even divided ? or does it start when it becomes 2 cells ? or 4 or whatever ? do we let science ability to keep babies alive outside the womb determine when life starts ? if we are talking about potential humans beings, then sperm is part of a potential human being.
what is life even ?
Last edited by meow; 08-08-2009 at 08:17..
Reason: cat on keyboard
(the baby stealing thing) 
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