The Big DebateIf you feel the need to get your teeth stuck right into a heavy debate on a subject you feel really passionate about, then this is the place to do so. Post about religion, politics, laws and all things juicy like that here.
Their true cost is nearly 90% higher when these people are in these appointments, eg employers national insurance contributions, long holidays, sick pay, first class travel etc...etc... When they retire, huge index linked pensions for life. It baffles me completely, private industry is cutting back like a Canadian logger in order to stay in business and competitive. It's also worth bearing in mind, no Government actually makes money. That's done by people and industry. Put simply, the more people Goverments employ, the greater the drain on the public purse. I'm only suggesting taking out the most expensive non-producers
Last edited by Bilko; 23-03-2009 at 19:44..
Reason: Inaccurate figure
Sorry, forgot to add in the previous post, it would be about 20,000 top jobs. 400 MPs would go for a start. In my view, 3 per county is plenty. What's also not counted into this is the costs of such things as office space, IT support, furniture, repairs, maintenance etc.etc..
Now that we're heading for deflation, is it not time for some of the more radical proposals at the top of this thread to be considered ? It would at least instill some confidence in our population that our government is making real in-roads to the problem. It would also reduce the frightening financial burden on the next two generations. Yes, I said TWO generations to rid Brittain of this self imposed debt. I can also assure you, printing money (quantitive easing in bull - - - - govmt terms) is steadily making that debt worse. On the other hand, do we really care because most of us will be long gone by then ?
don't forget that as good as those ideas may look on paper they have one essential component missing, just considering them isn't going to do anything, unless your going to do something like run for prime minister you have little hope of seeing them implemented. you don't seem to like political protest.
its really depressing to think we have so little control, and the people supposedly in power have little sense, and the people in real power these days ie the big institutions are driven by greed.
its disconcerting that all our banks are now owned by a Spanish ferry port.
don't forget that as good as those ideas may look on paper they have one essential component missing, just considering them isn't going to do anything, unless your going to do something like run for prime minister you have little hope of seeing them implemented. you don't seem to like political protest.
its really depressing to think we have so little control, and the people supposedly in power have little sense, and the people in real power these days ie the big institutions are driven by greed.
its disconcerting that all our banks are now owned by a Spanish ferry port.
If you generally agree with these proposed cuts, email it to your local MP with your own interpretation of what these cuts in Government expenditure should look like to you personally. You'll be surprised how interested they can get given that there's a general election on the horizon. NB Political protest comes in many guises
whether i agree with them or not, the problem of getting them implemented is unlikely to be solved by 1 or two people writing to MPs. especially as your basically trying to get the people in power to sack themselves.
your ideas really need a game plan of how to get them implemented. if this involves getting thousands of people to write to MPs then ok, thats a better start.
However i think Ive commented on the ideas themselves and although I don't disagree as such, I think the crux of the problem isn't really fundamentally addressed by them. I think the problem will also be many people will all have different ideas.
as to what the crux of the problem is and what the solution is,,, well ... its not a field that greatly interests me, and my head is full of constructive solid geometry problems atm lol.
its also something that worries me to think about, it would be different if anything I came up with stood a chance of being implementable.
I read a good idea from an American politician to legalise canabis and tax it, effectivly helping the countrys cash crisis. He even suggested canabis vending machines, looked quite comical.
I read a good idea from an American politician to legalise canabis and tax it, effectivly helping the countrys cash crisis. He even suggested canabis vending machines, looked quite comical.
Just another plonker yank, they don't know that it causes mental instability Why am I not surprised at such a dimturd idea ?
dont let me put you off lol, if you get a reply from your mp let us know ...
Quite deservedly you have an answer quicker than even I expected meow.
Todays Telegraph (Comment Section) "When Will There Be Cutbacks At Parliament PLC ?"
This brilliant article has been written by an outstanding journalist called Iain Martin. Note the name, he's clearly a rising star of the future.
As for this thread, probably dead now as the subject (and support) has been picked up by the quality press so I'll just sit back with a smug grin on my face and do my pub trip early today in celebration. My case for the prosecution rests m'Ludd
I haven't read it, maybe its on line ? newspapers just pamper to the whims of their readers. I don't tend to read them as I get irritated with the tons of garbage they print.
if it was in the Times or even the Guardian I might be more persuaded, actually they probably already have had a fairly good analysis of whats been going on and what the various possibilities are and what the likely outcomes are maybe even giving examples, but at least its not the Sun.
I doubt if this subject will go away for a while, although I hope its not around for as many generations as you suggest.
I think the core problems are that corporations are so large and powerful and competitive and have little regard for anything other than profit. this is due to the nature of the directors obligations to their shareholders - some sort of change here wouldn't go amiss. maybe such large companies should be forced to consider people that they affect other than their shareholders. the technicalities of how to achieve this would be very difficult to work out though.
I also think cut backs are an inevitable knee jerk reaction of recession, rather than a solution, I think it would be short sighted to think that cut backs alone would do much other than put people out of work. ironically its often the lowest paid that are laid off first.
@ Meow - when you've read the Telegraph article online, you may decide to edit your post ! It's also worth noting, 'Red Top' newspapers have a reading age of 8 - 11 year old and those highly intellectual 'Broad Sheets' are 16 - 18 year old level. Are you a snob ? Maybe not, you're just reigning me in a bit from my smug attitude today. You're completely forgiven and may it not rain on your washing for a week at least !
I think theres potentially a bit of snob in everyone maybe - (given the opportunity), but I certainly wouldn't think theres that much in me to be noticeable except maybe to chavs
I used to read the telegraph on occasion, and often the Sunday times, but haven't done so for ages.
but does that make me a snob ? I remember the Sunday times used to be such fantastic value for money.
unless theres more to the article than you summarized i doubt it will change my mind. I cant help feeling if there was anything more substantial you would of mentioned it.
However I have just listened to the live parliamentary debate on the economy (BBC2) with parliamentary questions in regard to the disagreement between the bank of england and the prime minister over a second fiscal 'kick', the answer from Harriet Harmon which just criticized the inheritance tax proposals of the conservatives in no way answered the question and had no relevance to the question whatsoever and was repeatedly given despite being repeatedly asked to answer the question.
its all such a farce it makes me wonder if we are really living in a real world or cloud cuckoo land !
in no way answered the question and had no relevance to the question whatsoever and was repeatedly given despite being repeatedly asked to answer the question.
And thus describes perfectly the world of modern politics and gives a little of an explaination as to how a badly run country has put us in the position the country is in right now.
I was watching the same live debate as I do most lunchtimes and as it always is, it was a farce and offers little more value than reality TV.
Yet the countries people continue to sit back and do nothing, while Gordon Brown is allowed to continue screwing up the future of generations to come.
The problem is that too many people are ignorant, so if allowed to vote on ideas we'd see the media controlling the majority of votes and a good chance of facebook groups rallying together to make stupid changes to the government/country.
It seems like were a bunch of children in a nursery being told what will happen to us, which as much as people complain about its a shame that i think anything getting more democratic would be dangerous.
you must be a sadist to watch it every day, I only watched it because I was to lazy to change channel after the wildlife program !.
I just read the telegraph article and it was indeed just as I expected - just winging at issues which are likely to sell papers to simple minded people and totally and utterly missing the real issue.
Although all your ideas are very intelligent and admirable none of it will ever happen because they are made of the same hot air that Gordon Brown keeps spouting. The English will never be angry enough to change anything while they get cheap alcohol, drugs a plenty, Sky TV,welfare benefits and more public sector jobs. Only if the welfare runs out will the English and Scots get angry enough to do anything. The last time the country was anywhere near revolt was when their votes were not counted correctly in a TV dancing competition and it cost them the price of a local phone call. Prior to that it was the Poll Tax purely because it was a Conservative Government and affected the great unwashed.
Quote:
I find it amazing that no one questions the number of bars open for both Lords and MPs... It is wrong for there to be any alcoholic drinks available in the Houses of Parliament...as in any place of work, let alone somewhere concerned with grave matters of war and peace etc...
there was no mention that what we really need is a way to get better MPs into the system and little if anything that would help reduce the effects of what has happened to the economy and even less to ensure it doesn't happen again.
All I see is just hot air and outrage at issues which will be shared by the majority of the masses, yet really have little to do with much at all.
you must be a sadist to watch it every day, I only watched it because I was to lazy to change channel after the wildlife program !.
Nothing wrong with the quotes, well not as far as posting them goes anyway.
I don't religiously watch Prime Ministers Questions, at least not deliberately, it's just that I normally have BBC News 24 on in the background for a fair amount of the day and it's broadcast on there.
There are some quite interesting debates though to be honest, especially seeing as in my opinionGordon Brown is generally terrible in face offs with David Cameron and I have to admit I quite like Cameron's approach, most the time, he speaks the words I at least want to hear, even if they are hollow, like every other politicians.
In a sadistic kind of way, it has been quite amusing watching the way the recession and credit crunch has panned out, especially seeing how up his own arse Gordon Brown was when he first announced the rescue packages and how he declared he had saved the worlds finances, yet a few months later, he's now skirting round every question again, spitting venom at how things haven't worked out as he had prayed they would. Brown has had some sticky crap to deal with since he was given the leadership, but he's making a complete arse of himself at every given opportunity and that to me makes great viewing.
It seems like were a bunch of children in a nursery being told what will happen to us, which as much as people complain about its a shame that i think anything getting more democratic would be dangerous.
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